To talk through this Clive was joined by Damien Walters from the British Institute of Kitchen, Bedroom & Bathroom Installation (BIKBBI) as well as a great friend of the show Danny Madden.

Madden said: “Well, Clive, I mean, just driving around, unfortunately, I hate to say it, but a lot of it is roof work that I've seen. And that's the thing is, people used to always say, oh, well, no, no, no one ever sits on a roof. I mean, it's just it's upsetting how you drive round, and on my way to my job and I see the scaffold going out. I think I might be doing some roofing there yet. The scaffold came down, it was absolutely disgusting.”

Madden added: “You must know, even if even if you you'd never done a day's roofing in your life. People think watching a couple of videos will often lead them to be experts at roofing absolutely not. Your own pride is at stake and you must know that doesn't look right. That doesn't look good. How could you leave it like that? And I'm seeing more and more of this now.”

BIKBBI’s Walters added: “Well, you know what I think shoddy workmanship is certainly not a new thing. We've  seen this, well, forever in a day, really, for every 10 good guys, there's one not so and I think sort of shoddy workmanship, generally speaking, is something that's been around for forever in our work and industry. I think it is probably going to get worse before it gets better. And I think there's some good reasons behind that.”

He pointed out that: “The very well documented skills get crisis is the one for me, Clive, that's the thing that kind of is driving everything. And then wherever you've got a skills gap, you've got opportunists and wherever you've got opportunists, you've got, shoddy workmanship, to be perfectly frank. You know what, it's, a big problem. It's not something that's just going to go away easily.

Walters reiterated the problems are not just caused by people or those infiltrating sectors in the industry today, but opportunists descending upon industry and causing problems.

“I think the skills gap crisis causes problems in a lot of areas and other areas. And an example, is the pressure that's applied on the labour, that’s left and unrealistic expectations for these businesses to complete work in unrealistic times.

Walters believes that people are not preparing to wait projects that need to be completed tomorrow that couldn't possibly wait three or four months for the right person to become available. “All of these things apply pressure to industry, and you even get great businesses that have got fantastic experience and, you know, really great reputation from some of these small businesses that the pressure is being applied so hard that it's almost forcing them to make bad decisions for their own business.”